This is the recipe in my sights.
> BY:stoprealones on ECF
> Start with PG/VG/Nic base of your choice
> * 7% Virginia(FA) >* 3% Cowboy Blend(FA) >* 1% EM(dilluted in Pg-cotton candy at PA) >* 1% Vape Wizard(F/A)
My dad LOVES this stuff. It's the only thing he wants to vape on a regular basis. I'm slowly getting him to try some other flavors, but this is his bread and butter.
The problem... is that the only place I can find it charges $18.99 for 30ml.
Highway. Robbery.
I've turned some other people on to it as well to help them quit. But it's hard to get someone into vaping when the one juice they like is twice as much as most other juice (unless we're talking "premium" stuff, but that's another topic).
So I want to make it. For friends and family. So they can vape what they enjoy and not break the damn bank doing it.
So anyway, I digress.
I just want to clarify a few things before I start.
- FA . Is that FlavorArt? Flavor Apprentice? Something else?
- The 1% EM dilluted in PG and then followed by Cotton Candy at PA... is that like a "choose one" type thing? Or do I mix both? Can someone help me decipher what that part in particular is supposed to mean?
Also, is the PG/VG ratio completely a subjective thing? Or is there going to be a "better place to start" with this recipe? I'm assuming, since people like this because it's so similar to a cigarette, that having a higher amount of PG is going to be the way to go. Would an 80/20 mix be a good place to start? Or maybe 50/50? Both?
Any other help or comments or suggestions or tips will be graciously accepted. Thank you!
The EM is most likely pre-diluted at 10% in PG (it is sold under the name of cotton candy), so the recipe calls for 1% of that solution.
I prefer to start around 50/50, but if you want a little more throat hit, then increase the PG.
Awesome. Thank you. "Cotton Candy at PA"... is that a particular brand or vendor or something?
Flavor Art, yes. Choose one: EM or cotton candy. EM comes in crystals, and you decide how strong you want them to be when you dissolve them in pg.
Downloand the ejuice me up calculator - it will help you with the % in the recipe - especially with the nicotine.
I mix mine and buy vendor liquid at 50/50 pg/vg. What you like is up to you.
Suggestion: read as much as you can in this sub. There's great info on the side bar too. It helps to get an idea of how everything works and what the abbreviations mean before you get into it.
FA is generally Flavor Art when listed by itself like that. Plus I don't think TPA has a Virginia tobbaco and Flavor art does.
The EM part is most likely a %10 Ethyl Maltol crystals dissolved in PG or TPA Cotton Candy flavoring. From what I understand they are the same or similar. It would be a lot simpler for you to just get the cotton candy, getting the EM crystals to dissolve is definitely more work. Either way you only want %1 of it in your recipe.
I'm not sure I've ever heard of anyone doing an 80/20 PG/VG blend, but it should work. Vapor production might be a little light though. I think maybe try a 70/30 and a 50/50 blend and try them both and see which one he likes more. He will probably notice the 70/30 blend has a bit more throat hit.
> The problem... is that the only place I can find it charges $18.99 for 30ml.
That's not that bad for good quality liquid though... Well, for "retail liquid", that is.
I guess I'm just used to getting 30ml for 8-9 bucks. :/
Its honestly nothing special. Its mixed in the backroom of a hole in the wall store. I mean, yes... it is good. But if I can make it for $3-4 a bottle... I would much rather do that. :)
No shame in that. Just like a restaurant, if someone wants to tale the time.and know-how to make a good pizza under five bucks it's no shame to a top-notch pizza place charging 30 for the same thing. A good pizza is a good pizza. It's all about whether you can and are willing to put forth the effort.
Yeah that not bad a bit over priced but not bad. 8-9 for a 30 is pretty damn cheap not sure anywhere other then MBV that sells for that.
ECBlends is in that ballpark as well.
There is also a local place around here that mixes juice on the spot and they still only charge like... $14 for 30ml I believe. You can walk in and ask them to make whatever you want with the flavors they have.
This guy is really no different. He's pre-mixing it up in the back of his shop and charging $19. $5 doesn't seem like that much to bitch about. But when 30ml only lasts a week and a half it starts to kind of sting a bit.
And I can almost guarantee that this isn't some recipe he has perfected over the years, that he has slaved away over, spending days at a time meticulously crafting the perfect mix of high notes and low notes... there are no fancy glass bottles with dripper attachments, no high gloss color printed labels.
I would put money that this guy takes this exact recipe, mixes it up, throws it in the cheapest plastic bottle he can find, prints out a label on his HP home printer that is low on ink or needs a good cleaning, and throws it up on the shelf with a $19 tag next to the Protank 2 that he wants $30 for.
I'm all about supporting a local business. But I also believe in fairness. I just don't feel like the cost of this particular juice is worth the money he is asking for it.
Will I spend $22 on a 35ml bottle of Cyclops Colossus? Hells yes. I have and I'm sure I will again. I know they put some time in that juice. It's presented well. I love it.
But this... this "Win-Slim"... it is not Cyclops. :/
Yeah that's a bit over kill I just wanted to point out that ecm and mbv basically make a lot of stuff look over priced because they sell retail what is pretty close to the standard for wholesale. My local shop sells theirs for 17 I think for 30ml but all professional labels and glass bottles
JMO...take it or leave it...substitute the EM with 1% marshmallow if you want a subtle clean sweetness. Drop the Vape Wizard entirely...those two ingredients will mute your good flavors
With total tobacco flavor at 10% it might need to be dulled out a little bit.
Substituting marshmallow for the ethyl maltol is so good idea though, I prefer the creamy of the marshmallow myself.
> With total tobacco flavor at 10% it might need to be dulled out a little bit.
I was wondering about this - I never mix my tobacco flavours that high, and I've also got some Vape Wizard I've never used. Is there a benefit to using that high a flavour concentration and adding wizard, vs. just using less flavour?
Yes. It depends on the tobacco you are using and, of course, your taste buds. When people say that smooth/MTS dulls flavours, they aren't saying that it dulls ALL the flavours but it does dull some. It's safe to say that smooth/MTS changes the character of the flavour.
Let's say that the tobacco flavor has six components: a, b, c, d, e, and f. If you mix the tobacco at 5% you have 5% of all six, and it tastes OK. If you mix it at 10% you have 10% of all six and it's harsh, bitter, whatever.
Now you mix tobacco at 10% but add one drop off smooth/MTS per 5ml. Now, some of those components are dulled, making others a little more pronounced. You might say that of the six components, you now have 10% a, 8% b, 5% c, 9% d, 6% e, and 7% f. So you don't dull out all the components equally, you just changed you perception of the components, you changed the character of the flavour.
Will smooth/MTS turn your harsh tobacco mix into your ADV? There's only one way to find out, try it. Without a degree in organic chemistry or something and lots of experience, you can't predict the results. Remember to let it steep, and don't toss your experiments right away. I've had mixes that were still harsh after two weeks, but taste much better after a month.
I'll try this. If I mix little 5ml "batches" it can't hurt to experiment, right? :)
Thank you.
That's right, with one caveat: you must be very accurate with your measurements.
I suggest mixing one 30ml bottle, then split that up into six 5ml bottles, each with exactly the same amount, then you can set one aside as a control and use the remaining five for your experiments. Here's what I would do:
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Make a 30ml bottle of 7% Virginia, 3% cowboy.
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Split that into six equal 5ml bottles.
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Bottle A: add .05ml ethyl maltol.
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Bottle B: add .05ml marshmallow.
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Bottle C: add .05ml whatever else you think might be good (toasted marshmallow? )
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Bottle D: add .05ml ethyl maltol and one drop of smooth/MTS
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Bottle E: add .05ml marshmallow and one drop of smooth/MTS
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Bottle F: control bottle, don't add anything.
Once you've done this, set it all aside for at least a week, tobacco flavours need steep time. then you can drop just a few drops on a dripping atomizer to taste them. The difference will be subtle so take notes, have a friend or two try them with you, but don't talk about them. Everybody take notes silently, otherwise you will inadvertently colour the results. Only after you have tasted all of them and everybody has their notes should you discuss the flavour subjectively. Be sure to thoroughly clean the atomizer between flavours so you don't have any cross-contamination. Once you've documented the difference in flavour, you might even combine two bottles if you feel it might lead to an improved flavour.
Remember, good science is good observation.