Hello all!
- Short intro: I have been vaping for over a year, I started with Njoys, then Jumped the shark straight to a VV Torpedo Chrome from Totally Wicked with 18350 battery. I use Protank2's almost exclusively, although I want to get a few RBA/RDA's just to check them out. I got an RSST that a local retailer had, and the airflow is terrible (still have to play with it), but the flavor is great....
On to the fluid. So, I've always had a really sensitive palate, even when I smoked analogs. I didn't notice a huge increase in flavor perception after switching... but when I say sensitive palate, at deli's I can generally taste what sandwich has been cut before mine (even if they've wiped the blade) just by biting into the cut edge of my sandwich. It frankly kind of sucks being that perceptive of flavors.
Like most at first I really wanted a tobacco flavor out of the E juice, and tried all the most popular/well rated tobacco flavors I could find. Some were OK, most were horrible, and ALL of them gave me what I came to describe as "flavor mouth".
Whatever is in these flavorings coats my taste buds, and even my skin and airways, I can taste it for hours after I switch fluids... and can smell/taste it on my clothes days/weeks later. At a certain point I got really frustrated, and took some advice from a friend and looked into just extracting nic/flavor directly from a cigar and using that as a base.
It was immediately clear that the flavor was leaps and bounds more realistic in terms of the tobacco, and it also didn't saturate my mouth. The flavor wasn't spot on at all, and I have been and continue to mess with the recipe and method of extraction, since I actually found out that you can REALLY influence the flavors with your extraction method. I also like the idea that there are quite literally 4 ingredients to my E-juice, and all of them are fit for human consumption. Near a year later, and I smoke nothing but my own juice, which I make in decently large batches. I've worked in restaurants and food service before, and have some background in chemistry, so I sterilize everything first/during/after, and it keeps for as long as 6 months with no clouding or negative impact on flavor... and I don't think that's the limit, I just normally consume it all by then.
But I was curious if anyone else was doing the same thing? I've asked around a bunch and looked around the internet a bit and haven't found anyone extracting nic/flavor from Tobacco except for a few people saying they did, or were going to start doing tea extracts.
Obviously I don't recommend anyone doing this, as during the extraction process, the tobacco, the solution, and even the filters are all likely potent enough to kill you without too much contact.
Another concern that might be why companies aren't doing this, is that I believe this process is pretty tightly regulated, IE you must register with the FDA to become a company that alters tobacco products and re-sells them. I'm looking into that whole process now as well.
No. I haven't done this. My concern would be the other chemicals that may potentially exist in the cigar tobacco. Are you at all worried about this?
I am. However, I am similarly "sensitive" in my perception of effects of chemicals/drugs. When/if I smoke an actual tobacco product (say a cigar with a friend, or even if I'm surrounded by analog smoke) for 2-3 days I have to deal with urges for analog smoke again, and I can feel the effects of the other chemicals on my respiratory, and vascular systems. Lots of flavored juices have left me feeling as if something else was acting on my body.
I have been using cigars just purchased at a store, I am thinking about sending out the fluid for chemical analysis by a lab.
I also plan on making my next batch with organic tobacco from a native american reservation.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/e-cigarette-suppliers-forum/447277-wholecig-wta-discussion-thread-all-topics-welcome-2.html
This is a discussion from ECF about WTA. It is a very long thread, but there is discussion in it that persuaded me that it may not be so easy to make tobacco extracts with a rotary evaporator. There is apparently considerable danger with the alkaloids. You may find it interesting reading.
Great link thanks! I have to check all that out!
The process I use is pretty simple, and I have no idea what alkaloids are or aren't getting extracted, but nicotine is water and alcohol soluble so, it really doesn't take much to extract it. It's more a matter of dealing with the very dangerous extraction.
Also a simple method of displacing solvent is, when down to a very small amount of the solvent to be evaporated your mix it with distilled water, this ensures that the lower evaporation temp solvent is evaporated first, you can do it a couple times if you are very concerned, but again, there is no worries of consuming the solvent as well, people use alcohol as a preservative in tinctures and ejuice.
I'll have a thorough dig through that thread though looks like a treasure trove of info!
I'm keen to try some of your liquid... if you're willing to ship to the UK please PM me details.
Research purposes only, not for human consumption, I'm aware of the risks, won't feed it to pets, don't work for the Government, I am over 21, [insert other disclaimers here].
This MIGHT change, but for now, I'm too spooked to consider distributing this on any level. Despite popular belief the FDA has pretty clear regulations regarding all this, and the method which I'm using would violate lots of local/federal/international laws if I were to send this to anyone outside of my own state. Even in state, I can't receive money for it. Frankly I think doing for myself is a violation of some laws....
I'm going to give applying to the FDA a go for shits and giggles... While I'm not entirely sure, I have a feeling if a company were to appeal to them in a very specific manor, they may actually approve a company to produce and distribute E-Liquid. Right now ANYONE doing so without having filed a submission to the FDA is in direct violation of existing federal law. I might do a write up on the info I've collected so far directly from the FDA.
I do this in a sense but not with tobacco. It's usually fruits and berries, I just suspend it in VG until its nice and tasty...
Nice! I've heard that you can also do this with the tobacco and forgo the solvent entirely, but it takes MUCH longer, although as I've been refining the process I've found the more "gentle" you are in the extraction the more flavor and body to the fluid.
There is a hint of vanilla in the cigars I use now, so I plan on doing some vanilla extract as well. I MIGHT play with more flavors, but honestly, I've always liked the taste of tobacco (surely since I was raised in a smoking house).
please elaborate!
Take your fresh fruit, we'll use watermelon as an example since it works relatively quickly(compared to some others)you would get a mason jar big enough for what you need. Make sure you have a lid. Stuff a bunch of cut up chunks of watermelon into the jar, smash it down, stuff more. Not too much though, you want the VG to be able to circulate through it. Leave it in your closet or something for 3 weeks or so, picking it up and shaking it really well every day...after a while you'll notice its changing, its just VG and flavoring so you can literally dip your finger in and taste it. Ive done the same thing with many other flavors, ive also done it with solvents, shine, pretty much all of it. I make a 100% organic ejuice for me and my friends, this is how i ensure its truly organic and not full of shit.
I have done many plant, fruit, and nut extractions but never tobacco. It's a flavor issue for me and I like a strong citrus aroma. I just add nicotine afterwards. What I can tell you is that plant material intended for smoking is generally 10-15% water by weight. Since I generally want more potent flavors, I add a drying phase prior to extraction by heating the plant material at 175 degrees F until brittle. The consistency is that of a dry autumn leaf. A dessicator (used for making dried fruits and beef jerky) works even better but takes longer. If you're going to do a cold extraction then that's the way to go as an extra couple days won't matter over a three month extraction.
On a separate note. If you want to amplify the flavor of your extract, you have to keep the solution slightly acidic. A bit of citric acid would impart little flavor and with some pH strips you should be able to keep your solution at about 6.5. Nicotine is a weak base. I should say that you could use any sufficiently strong acid, citric is just easy to acquire. I use hydrochloric acid but I'm trying to make my answers user friendly.