TFA/TPA and Acetoin

submitted over 11 years ago by Boredsecurityguard

I know many of you use TFA/TPA for your flavorings. I know that they are my preferred flavor extracts to work with. However, I am slowly starting to feel like I need to shift away from some of their flavors. Turns out one of their extracts that I use THE MOST contains Acetoin. Their Bavarian Cream contains trace amounts of Acetoin and the reason I really loved that flavor is that it provided a decent cream flavor without the risk of Diacetyl/Acetoin. While I know that vaping is not risk free, this is a slight shock to me since they have previously listed their ingredients that did contain "Custard Notes".

However, I am happy that they updated the information on their extracts and give heads up to people like us. I am going to try some of their other Vanilla type flavors for a similar taste. Now, I am wondering if maybe TFA isn't the end all be all. Should I look to Capella? FlavorWest? LorAnn?

My only fear is that those companies have similar ingredients in their liquids, but simply do not provide the information that TFA does. Thoughts? Just because the company says they are Daicetyl free does not mean they are Acetoin free. Acetoin can have traces of Diacetyl in them. So while it is not as bad as having Daicetyl in them solely, this is something we need to look for and ask about.

Comments

2 points

by blackhawkk9over 11 years ago

I was led to believe that most of the creamy/custard flavors have trace amounts of acetoin and Daicetyl. Those ingredients give the flavors their custard notes. Vanilla bean ice cream also contains trace amounts.

This is speculation but, I'm sure a large amount of juice people buy have trace amounts of either ingredient. It just adds to the ever more reason to diy.

2 points

by Viraus2over 11 years ago

>My only fear is that those companies have similar ingredients in their liquids, but simply do not provide the information that TFA does

Very likely. Ingredients like these are exactly what produces a lot of creamy/buttery notes that people love, so they're very common in these sorts of flavors.

2 points

by billgarmsarmyover 11 years agoFrugivore

LorAnn's bav cream apparently also contains acetoin. is the problem with acetoin that it can contain trace amounts of diacetyl?

1 points

by Boredsecurityguardover 11 years ago

Yeah. It is not a HUGE worry, but if risk minimization is key than ingrediants like these might want to be used rarely or even sidestepped. Acetoin can potentially have trace amounts of diacetyl.

1 points

by billgarmsarmyover 11 years agoFrugivore

i did a bunch of reading because of this post and decided i'm going to finish out what i have, but not use it in the future.

1 points

by tekhawkover 11 years ago

Interesting and sad I love b cream you might want to look at vanilla swirl which is their custard without the custard

1 points

by h1p1n3over 11 years ago

I'm confused. Was the flavor tested recently or something? I just checked the website and here is what it said:

Bavarian Cream Flavor A warm, creamy, vanilla flavor. Try blending with coffee, fruit, or nut flavors! water soluble

*** does not contain any "Custard" note ingredients

Ingredients:Natural & Artificial Flavor, Propylene Glycol, Water

but anyway, I highly highly suggest trying vanilla swirl. It's absolutely amazing.

3 points

by Maelmordover 11 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

I was browsing last night, and just double checked now:

>A warm, creamy, vanilla flavor. Try blending with coffee, fruit, or nut flavors! water soluble

>*** Note: we have recently discovered that this flavor has a small trace amount of Acetoin

>Ingredients:Natural & Artificial Flavor, Propylene Glycol, Water

1 points

by h1p1n3over 11 years ago

Ah, I see it now. I was looking at the bulk size page. well great. I have 16oz coming tomorrow. maybe I can use it for cooking.

1 points

by kb-airover 11 years ago

makes me feel better about the 4oz bottle i just received.

1 points

by Boredsecurityguardover 11 years ago

For some reason the bavarian cream flavors page does not have it, BUT if you go to TFA's homepage, click professional flavors, click chocolate & vanilla, and scroll down to Bavarian Cream it states that trave amounts of Acetoin are found.

1 points

by SumDudeYouKnowover 11 years ago

Acetoin is in cigarettes. I know cigarettes are evil, but the FDA must have approved acetoin for inhalation, otherwise it wouldn't be in them. This may not instill any confidence.

3 points

by eshultzover 11 years ago

Maybe I'm confused but there is a long list of chemicals in cigarette smoke that are most definitely not approved for inhalation -- carbon monoxide, for one

1 points

by peraziniover 11 years ago

What about the Triacetin in "smooth"?

1 points

by Boredsecurityguardover 11 years ago

Triacetin has shown thus far to be Ok for inhalation.

1 points

by raskolnikov206over 11 years agoPâtissier

Am I the only one who actively looks for flavorings that contain custard notes and acetoin? Lol

Capellas vanilla custard mixed with sweet cream, bavarian cream, and vanilla bean ice cream was the tastiest creamiest thickest most smooth and luxurious drool inducing liquid I've made lol

2 points

by Boredsecurityguardover 11 years ago

Lol maybe, but I doubt you are alone. There are people out there willing to take the possible risk. I chain vape like mad. I used to go through 10ml in my 8hr shifts at work. Ive cut back a bit and I probably only go through about 6-7ml a day now. If there is a risk and I am ingesting lots of juice, I would have increased exposure.

That being said it is only trace amounts of Acetoin and that doesnt necessarily mean there is trace amounts Diacetyl in that trace amount of Acetoin. Trace amount. Trace amount. Another one for good measure, trace amount.

At these minimal levels I have no idea if any harm could come, but if there are similar alternatives to the flavor without acetoin I would prefer it.

Ive sent an email to TFA regarding what the analysis of Bavarian Cream showed. Lets see if a reply is sent.

0 points

by theBigDaddioover 11 years agoMixologist

If what you are saying is you do not even trust GRAS then why not just quit vaping?

2 points

by kirktover 11 years agoBring on the Diacetyl, baby

GRAS is for ingestion, not for inhalation of the vaporized ingredient.

2 points

by Sandman0over 11 years ago

Diacetyl is GRAS, and perfectly fine when eaten. Inhale it on the other hand, and you'll eventually end up with Bronchiolis Obliterans (pretty sure that is Latin for "lung obliterator").

Acetoin is known to contain trace amounts of diacetyl.

Vaping is risk management, not necessarily risk mitigation. Some people will be ok with vaping Acetoin, some won't. Gotta know it's there to make that informed decision though.

Until vaping becomes much more mainstream we're kind of on our own for letting each other know what stuff is not good to be vaping.

1 points

by Boredsecurityguardover 11 years ago

I am not saying that. What I am saying is that acetoin is known to have trace amounts of Diacetyl and Diacetyl is know to be cytotoxic, hence the spur of the "Free of Diacetyl" movement for eliquid and flavoring agents.