Hello there DIY!
We (obviously) love mixing E-liquid, and we would like to get into the DIY supply side of things, and we think a good way to start would be by selling some of our flavors in concentrate-form.
We have also thought of making a straight up VTNW recipe book. The problem with this is that we have about a million different flavorings we use... so it isn't practical for the casual DIYer.
So- is this something that people want? Is this an idea worth pursuing?
Also, if you have an idea for this project, we would love to hear it.
I actually think a recipe book would be a great idea. I'm not sure about the rest of the DIY community, but when I set out ordering new flavorings, I look around for a few vendor's juices I would like to emulate and buy the flavors required. Then not only can I make said juice, I have another flavor I can use for my own concoctions.
Books take a lot of time, but I would be down :)
Maybe do a beta first! Just a super simple list of recipes! Also, not sure what tech you have on your end, and I'm certainly no expert, but a recipe book seems fairly simple to automate. You could collect all your recipes via web form or something, with a standardized template, and use a script to grab those templates from the db and populate a LaTex template for each recipe you have. Bam, you have the body of your recipe book, all fancy and professional looking. Include that bitch between your intro fluff and concluding whatevers or whatever else, and new recipes go into the form, and updating your book is just running your conversion script again. The gathering and writing of the recipes would take the most time.
I think selling it as a concentrate would be a great idea, and would definitely settle most apprehensiveness one would have about jumping in to DIY juices!
Yes I definitely think this is a step in the right direction, so you just sell the mix of flavors that the user dilutes to a certain concentration? I would be wiling to pay 'gourmet' juice prices for an equivalent 30ml bottle of concentrated flavor mix
That's the idea! Say we sold a 10 ml bottle of Purple Drank Concentrate. If it was used as a flavoring at 20% of the DIY blend, you could make 50 ml- or it could even be stretched out for a lighter flavor and a bigger bang for your buck.
Thanks for the feedback!
Yes that allows a lot of flexibility for the user and I know for sure that if you were to do that I would try a lot of vapor trail juices!:)
or we could just buy our own flavorings and make our own concentrated blends and get like 10 times the bang for our buck lol
i mean, what the hell could purple drank possibly have in it thats so groundbreaking and amazing? let me guess
grape juice flavoring
lemon lime flavoring
watermelon flavoring
lol
I would say this is a great idea, pending the price. There's definitely room for mark up though.
I kind of see it as a middle option:
Option 1: buy juice - easiest yet most costly
Option 2: buy concentrate - pretty darn easy and actually quite cheap compared to buying flavors and experimenting on your own just to replicate a specific vendor juice (which you'll never get 100% anyway).
Option 3: 100% DIY. The cheapest option, yet also the most time consuming. And in some ways the cost can add up as well... as an individual its not like you have access to 100's of flavors the way a vendor might.
To be honest, I think what your proposing will ultimately be the sweet spot in the market... it's the ideal blend of low effort, quality and cost savings.
But the last one (cost savings) is the key. If a 30ml costs 15 bucks, then the concentrate can't cost any more than say 4-5 bucks (when you factor in that people will be providing their own PG and VG and nic base).
I think a lot of vendors are too hooked on the margins of ejuice to offer a concentrate which eats into those profits.
But at the same time I think that's where the market will ultimate end up... as people who don't want to pay 15 bucks for 30ml end up DIY'ing. But a lot of those folks would buy from a vendor if they could make 30ml of juice for around 7-8 bucks of cost (4 bucks for the flavor and 4 bucks on PG/VG/Nic).
Ok just read through the thread and it sounds hokey to me. MBV already does this. I believe this is like one of those cigarette machines where you buy tobacco and paper tubes and such and "make" your own... DIY is doing yourself, not re-constituting orange juice. What you are selling is the e-cig equivalent of microwave dinner.
I would not be interested at all. It's probably a good idea, like selling koolaid. Just add your own nic/pg/vg. Oh I bet you will sell that too, as well as bottles etc right?
I had a cigarette machine and used paper tubes when I smoked cigs. a carton of menthol goodness for under $20, fucking-a right.
I just made a big purchase with Wizard Labs, jumping into the DIY juice thing head first. as a newbie, I'd be interested in a concentrate of popular juices I like. never tried Vapor Trails stuff... but the concept is appealing.
If anything coulda me me jump on the DIY bandwagon, this would be it. I would love to mKe my own Sasquach!
I think it could be a beautiful thing.
Without having to mix flavors, you wouldn't need a lot of DIY supplies would you? I don't think I would start mixing. It sounds too dangerous (dealing with the pure nicotine). I'm a clumsy individual.
You are thinking of diluted nicotine in a PG or VG base. NEVER deal with pure nicotine unless you are a chemist with the proper equipment and personal protective equipment.
A lot of folks get their liquids (both bases and nicotine) from Wizard Labs. You would need Nic (optional), VG, PG, and some chemistry grade equipment (available through Wis Lab).
It is kind of like getting into craft brewing in the sense that you save money in the long-run, but there is an initial investment in time and $$$ that you also should consider.
edit:long-term dollar signs
Yes! Do it. I love some of the Mom and Pops flavours and was delighted when I found their concentrates. I mix my own now using them.
You could lose some premix customers but most people avoid the faffing about and buy premade so you could actually gain new custom.
Like me!
I would be interested in both ideas, concentrates and a recipe book. My only additional idea would be for the book. Include a cross-index of the juices that can be made with the flavoring on hand. Like the cookbooks that take the ingredients that you have and tell you what you can make.
I really like the direction you're thinking. I can buy OJ and various other drinks as concentrates and I can mix them the way I want (maybe with fruit punch instead of water).
I don't think DIY is going away so more people will already have nic/VG/PG on hand and become comfortable with it. This would also allow people to have their own mashup for various situations and vape gear. Maybe higher PG and higher nic in their Protanks and lower nic and higher VG for their RDA's.
There's also the FDA to consider, as it applies to the future of buying nic products/juice online, proving your age, delivering in the mail, etc., I think. This could be a good hedge for a vendor to have in place in the event that all gets ugly one day.
Great feedback!
To speak to the last point of your comment, that has been my plan all along! If the FDA stops us from being able to supply the nation online, we will just supply our concentrates, and that way, our flavors can live on!
Right on. Now, chuck it all into one of those ol' 4-panel steel unfolding chemistry sets we had when I was a kid and see what happens.
6-8 of your signature concentrates, PG, VG, nic (while you can), the book, some menthol and EM crystals (in glass), a selection of basic lab items, gloves, safety glasses, a few various extra flavors, filters for coffee extractions, empty bottles, labels, droppers, then slap a campy retro color image of some happy couple on the front with their safety glasses and gloves on, peering through a graduated cylinder off into space.
If you can think of a good reason to put litmus paper and a bunsen burner in there, that would be a bonus.
A butane micro torch! You could partner with someone and add a selection of rebuilding tools and various wick and wire supplies into one of the panels. There we go. Now we have the fire part covered. This would not be the same without fire.
Litmus paper was cool to play with but I think a nic test kit would be more appropriate here to parallel the fascination of making things change colors. And it fills half of a panel.
I think you must do it... for science. I'm 56, btw. My chemistry set as a kid was kind of a big deal. :)
> There's also the FDA to consider, as it applies to the future of buying nic products/juice online, proving your age, delivering in the mail, etc., I think. This could be a good hedge for a vendor to have in place in the event that all gets ugly one day.
Yeah, I see the industry moving in this direction. The shipping restrictions on tobacco products are pretty extreme. Fucking PACT act. The retailer has to collect taxes for each state they sell to and a single can of snus costs like $30 to ship.
I think its an alright idea I don't know how many people would buy it since I would assume it would still be cheaper to buy from what ever site. The cookbook is a great idea tho
We would price it to make it affordable. Not set in stone, but $10 for 10 ml of concentrate that can make 50 ml of E-liquid seems like a good deal.
Everyone is loving the cook book idea!
Are you saying just for the flavor $10's? I mean I don't know what you put in all your e-liquids but your energy drink is 5.50 bucks for 10ml, alright price and all but are you really adding thing to it to make it any different then what everyone else is doing?
Most flavor vendors are 6.50 for over 100ml for energy drink
I think I might just be confused ;-(
Sorry if I am not being clear. The flavoring would be more expensive than purchasing it elsewhere, but they are signature blends. For example- Pure energy is a combination of 4 flavors- not just an energy blend.
The reason I wanted to release these signature blends in concentrate would be to give someone something killer right off the bat to work with if they are starting DIY; or maybe even for vapers who already DIY and like our stuff. There could be substantial savings if you could make 50 ml of our blends for 10$ (roughly half off), so that was my reasoning.
This is all just open-forum brainstorming at this point though, nothing is set in stone.
Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming!
For me this would be great. I love mixing, but as yet my flavours aren't up to the standard of some really good juices premixed by experienced chefs like yourselves, but i can't afford to be buying premixed quality all the time - it's usually just a very occasional treat. Having affordable but reliable concentrates would be brilliant.
A book would be good too, but so far i've found every time i find a recipe i want to try i'm almost always 1 ingredient short!
>We (obviously) love mixing E-liquid, and we would like to get into the DIY supply side of things, and we think a good way to start would be by selling some of our flavors in concentrate-form.
Sounds good to me. I know some folks who dig the premixed MBV flavorings.
Sounds like a cool idea! I think it's all going to come down to price and reputation. Try to get some samples out there! Make sure people know you are doing it.
I feel like we do diy for the flexibility and creativity, but also because it's cheap. I don't think it would change the diy game, but it could definitely help people get started, which I think is sweet, and it could make your juices appeal to people who usually don't buy vendor juices.
Personally, with the ease of making juice, I don't buy vendor juice unless it's marked way down, but I'd be more likely to try vendor flavorings by buying concentrates.
I dig.